New Post: The Perfect Loot System

It was a wonderful make-believe system. The problem with it was primarily the ‘make-believe’ part. Could I build it, I wondered, perhaps as a plugin to eqDKP, or maybe even reach out to the owners / administrators of World of Logs. Maybe there was a set of rules we could come up with to determine how to break that analysis down, displaying it in subsequent reports. But it ate away at me. This is too complicated, too much to administrate. There’s no guarantee the people at World of Logs will ever get on board with this craziness.

Day late and a dollar short, damn these people trying to make me work on a Thursday…the nerve.

As our roster grew, less spots were available

Change ‘less’ to ‘fewer’.

The good news was that both Mangetsu and Drecca felt strongly about keeping standards high in the Alt-25, and this trickled down in the form of a strict set of rules to be followed in the Alt-25, described on the forums and enforced in raids.

For redundancy’s sake and just a bit of cleanup: ‘The good news was that both Mangetsu and Drecca felt strongly about keeping standards high in the Alt-25, and this trickled down in the form of a strict set of rules to be followed as described on the forums.’

The last time it bit me in the ass had to do with the context of an
"alt" or “off-spec” bidding and winning on an item, taking it from a
player who was attempting to win it for their own main spec.

This reads off to me and I had to spend some time thinking about what to change to make it smoother. How about ‘The last time it bit me in the ass was caused by “off-spec” bidding: a player in a DPS role winning tanking items over a player in a tank role for example.’

expected to start 1st-rounding bids on some

I see what you are doing here. Would it sound better as ‘1st-round bidding’? Could be a six on one, half-dozen on the other situation as well, up to you.

the night Ikey attempted to bid 1st round on a freshly dropped heroic Deathbringer’s Will – a trinket long sought by pure DPS classes that had been waiting patiently. I wasn’t particularly happy with Omaric’s

Brand new readers here will be lost. They don’t know Ikey=Omaric.

‘Fire it over. I shall disseminate. Give me a few minutes.’

Disseminate means to spread or disperse. Did Cheese mean dissect or is he just a retard? :smiley:

Sorry Dalans, You’re an asset to the organization, but you’re not worth the 458 DKP I’m going to lose as a result of your return.


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I actually have a couple ideas for the loot counsel method that might alleviate some of your concerns about it being too corruptible:

  1. Rotate the loot counsel

I mean, it seems you can have a set core of a few individuals as governors of every loot counsel (guild leader, raid leader, and one other officer), but rotate new elites in and out each week.  You’d have to make a schedule to let elites know when they’d be responsible for loot counsel duties.  It puts a little more responsibility in their hands, but at least you’re moving folks in and out with different perspectives and biases.  Plus, I think that would be kinda fun; you get the sensation that you’re participating in guild governance without having any actual authority :smile:  After all, the ultimate decision comes from the core members whose job it would be to facilitate quick and fair deliberations.


  1. obligate someone to disagree with the consensus to offer up an additional opinion for discussion. This way a unanimous doesn’t ‘always go through’ without first having potential alternatives discussed, even if the “obligated” person agrees with the decision.

The problem with #1 I can see is what you may be counting as it’s strength. You have a set group of people that fall into a general pattern in distributing loot, given enough time would (I hope) end up in a round robin type of situation where everyone gets something with exception to those highly prized items would probably end up with top performers.

Additionally it might cause unnecessary tension and overhead due to difference of opinion with those who are deciding and the amount of time to assign loot. Is the loot council going to assign set items for example, by starting with top performers and gear them out with weapons/trinkets/full sets for bonuses and then move down a list? Or will it be more gradual, one or two items per run? Would DPS be valued over Healers for set tokens?

Also, I’ve heard talk of examining people’s gear and coming to a conclusion on who should get the item; does this happen during the raid? Is progress being halted so members of the loot council can inspect everyone’s gear to see who will benefit the most? If this is done beforehand, it would take an inordinate amount of time to keep up with who has what and plan out, if X items drops then Y is going to get it, only to have that item never drop. This reminds me of the amount of time it took to create a set list back in the MC days of number values for every item on the loot table and tweaking that when something was too high/too low/had more value that first anticipated.

I think adding additional opinions each week wouldn’t help resolve any of those issues, only create new ones such as “oh I wasn’t ready before with a list of what was what, I didn’t even know I’d be on the loot council this week,” or “why should this person we added this week change the council’s decision on an item we decided about last week or the week before?”

After all, the ultimate decision comes from the core members whose job it would be to facilitate quick and fair deliberations.

If the decision ultimately lies somewhere else then it should always stay with those people. If someone gets overruled because of a bad loot council decision, they are going to figure out that they were never deciding in the first place.

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I think it’s Shawn trying to make me sound smarter than I am. Can’t find “disseminate” in my gmail search. Or “dissect” while we’re at it.

It had a better ring to it than

“Yeah, sure.”

The actual conversation ended up being:

10:50 AM me: well i have something i’d like your opinion on i’ve only shown this to one other person so far (Blainne) and he’s given me his thoughts already I’d like to hear yours. I’m giong to share out a doc to you over google docs
10:51 AM David: Sounds good

“Sounds good” it is, you boring sonofabitch.

I rewrote this one sentence. Should be clearer now.

I think much of that can be handled with pre-planning. You can avoid people’s unpreparedness by dishing out assignments a week in advance. This way they have no excuse, and if they do, they lose a spot on the council. Also, I don’t see an problem with incentives any prized items to top performers. How is that any different than having Elite status? They get first round bids on “prized” items as it was at the end of DoD. Now, I do agree that there are biases, but I was hoping the obligatory “counter vote” would prevent completely unanimous decisions from going through.

Now, as for timing, I can see how a debate might prolong raid time. That’s really my only concern; how to expedite the process of the council deliberations because I can’t see that being any faster than DKP/Bids.

Now, having Hanzo be the defacto governor of the council doesn’t take away from the council members. They’re there to provide pro’s and cons of the situation to advise with the decision making. Hopefully their input would provide Hanzo (or raid leader) with enough information to make an informed decision. Perhaps this could be remedied as a tie breaking vote only where the final decision is enacted in the event of a tie?

Details of the system have to be ironed out like anything else. distribution of loot is no different. I don’t think DPS vs Healers is an issue; if you’re lacking on one end, then you know you need to move the look in the other way to compensate. It doesn’t have to be an “all DPS” vs “all healing” night on tokens, but you can distribute, say, 3:1, or 2:1 as needed.

All sounds great in theory. In practice, emotions can get the best of you, and sway even the most stalwart. Might not seem like a huge deal, but it is. Jilted members now have an additional excuse to throw in your teeth, “just a bunch of people who got in good with the guild leader early on. If you’re not a member of their secret club, might as well say goodbye to any chance at getting loot.”

At least with DKP, it was one less excuse that couldn’t be levied directly on the upper echelon of the guild. “There was no private club. You just didn’t get any loot because you didn’t earn. Here’s the chart, see for yourself.”

Until you’re quitting, at which point it’s “Stop trying to use the DKP you earned because you’re supposed to be thinking of others”. Cough :smile:

Hey! You can cough all you want! Taking huge upgrades on your way out is still a douche move. I only allowed it because it was the least I could do for those players who honored my request of giving me two weeks notice.

I still reserve the right to point out douchebaggery!

As douchy as not letting someone who EARNED their DKP in your system to SPEND it? :smile:

To be honest, I don’t think I was on my way out the door as I received that trinket that apparently causes the dramas, but very soon after the switch was hit.

All I remember is leaving with 210-250 DKP, which means I had 110-150 that was mine to spend, and was not allowed to spend it. Now, if there were some sort of better, more council-y system in place, then there wouldn’t be unspent DKP causing resentment over the system, as a council can say “we appreciate what you did, now fuck off” as opposed to “you earned this DKP, but I can’t let you use it. Now fuck off.”

Apparently you can’t put in a real hashtag at the beginning of a line or it looks like

You can’t put a hashtag in front of a line because THIS ISN’T TWITTER.

Bookmark this for future reference:


Calm down nerds. Those pixels and numbers don’t even exist anymore.


In print, it’s Libel.

/filter=Druid Hmm no Dalans.

/filter=Rogue Hmm no Cheeseus.

Those pixels and numbers don’t even exist anymore

The defense resets.

30 Cheeseus Rogue 11.92 0 01/21/11 0 % (0)

Speak for yourself, my friend.

Cheeseus had me at yoloswag